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Incentive of Labor

12 04 09 - 17:25

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One of the most frequently asked questions I am confronted with is, If everyone is provided for
equally, why would people work harder? Why would anyone want a job that was taxing mentally or physically,
when all are provided for equally?

People have a hard time grasping the concept of changing thier views on incentive. Most have been
conditioned to view things in a capitalistic manner, only doing things for financial gain and
self interest. This is of course not thier faults, being products of an environment that promotes
these behaviors. Consumerism runs deep throughout our daily lives and all are subject to programming
by mass media. Materialistic conquests are associated with status within our society.

Changing these concepts in people is not always an easy thing to do. Most people have never taken
anarchism into consideration as a viable alternative way to live, generally due to the huge
misconceptions surrounding anarchism. When expressing these alternative views to others, one
must explain the true nature of capitalism. Capitalism is comparable to a parasite deriving
benefit from the exploitation of others and is in no way symbiotic with society. Capitalism
proposes only to sustain its self without regard for social or ecological benefit, as to where
anarchism proposes both of these things and on a level playing field to boot.


A.O.C.
95 comments

the problem with incentivizing everything is the crux of capitalism, on one of the TED talks recently he mentioned an experiment they did in canada – they asked so many people if they would be willing to have a nuclear dump near their house – 50% said ok from feelings of responsibility to the greater community – then asked the same number of people to have a nuclear dump near their home with cash incentive – only 25% said yes because they felt it was a good deal.

its a very interesting talk if u want to hear it properly –
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/barry..
noble coward () - 12 04 09 - 17:48

It’s one of the most frequently asked questions you are asked, and yet instead of answering it you denigrate those who ask it. You many call me narrow-minded, but that alone isn’t enough to convince me to change my mind (though it may cause me to dig my heels in deeper). I need a reason to believe you; give me one.
viva la resistance () - 13 04 09 - 07:46

thank you aoc.
ummichas () - 13 04 09 - 09:08

How did i denigrate anyone? I stated facts and also stated that these views and values are instilled by those in power.
I place no blame on the individual.
A.O.C. - 13 04 09 - 15:19

aoc, its just another person that needs a reason to claim their own freedom. why would someone want to be free, right? we dig our heels in because we are used to being oppressed, we are addicted to it. we have forgotten that we are in fact free.

we don’t need a reason to be free, we just are.

too bad the somali pirate situation has turned out so poorly, people dying and such. but then again, that is the price of capitalism.
ummichas () - 13 04 09 - 21:03

yeah we are made to distrust each others motives, but when it comes down to it the prisoners dilemma is only true when we are prisoners.

the capitalism we have now is top down anarchy for the few, who just keep telling us to trust their motives !! i think i could trust the pirates more !! ..
noble coward () - 14 04 09 - 03:35

yarrr, i agree.
ummichas () - 14 04 09 - 18:19

WE ARE WATCHING
a warning - 17 04 09 - 12:51

it’s great to know that YOU ARE WATCHING...

it would be interesting if there were to be more pirates and what not. we read about pirates in the news every once in a while, but its nothing too big. i’d like to see how the government would react if pirates became a bigger problem, like capturing entire fleets of vessels. . .

more pirate plundering, less government blundering? =-P
Psycho Sean (URL) - 17 04 09 - 14:16

go pirates woot!!!!!
ken - 18 04 09 - 08:35

i hope one of them navy oboats gets captured hahaha
what are we going to do declare war on pirates?
thats absurd war on pirates!
i hope they take as many boats as they can if i was out there id help them
ken - 18 04 09 - 08:37

hahaha war on pirates! that’d be great. it’d be one more thing the US would be at war with. “the war on terror” “the war on drugs” and now “the war on piracy” (not to mention the war on the lower classes…)
psycho sean - 18 04 09 - 10:30

Psycho Sean nice comment my exact feelings. What more could the US be at war with
wushuq92 - 19 04 09 - 10:00

To follow the lead of what viva la resistance says to the main post: The piece of “incentive of labor” provides no argument for a alternative living system. Yes capitalism creates a uneven distribution of wealth, leaving the underclass to fight for scraps, leading to incentives so that workers can continue producing large amounts of wealth for the upper classes. However, what alternatives to incentives would provide the working class to produce in a non-capitalist society? A.O.C. doesn’t answer the fundamental question the piece is seeking to answer.
Patricio (URL) - 19 04 09 - 19:45

Well Patricio, everyday someone loses a job to some kind of machine. Maybe in a near future we won’t need so much incentive of labor because we won’t need to work sooo much.
Niark - 23 04 09 - 14:26


fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:14

SUCK MY DICK
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:15

FUCKS ANARCHY IN THE ASS
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:16

SUCK MY DICK SUCK MY DICK
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:16

SUCK MY DICK SUCK MY DICK
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:17

RAPES BLACK TOOTH GRIN

(now its shit grin) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:18

because i shoved it in his ass then had him lick it dry

good faggot

i wont blow your brains out if you do it again
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:19

fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:19

anarchy is gay
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:19

fuck fuck fuck fuck you you you fuck you fuck you fuck you
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:20

ghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:21

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fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:21

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fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:22

ALL because anacrhy is gay

and all the cops will rape your asses

get a fucking job then maybe it wouldnt be so bad for you fucking hippies
fuck - 24 04 09 - 22:23

highly unintelligent. bravo, you have lots of potential for usefulness in your future. i find it amazing that you would waste your time, and mine, with a contribution like this.

1. anarchy is gay – you got me!! i’m a happy person because of anarchy.
2. all the cops will rape our asses – well, just another reason to carry on our fight against the police – state! hey, fuck, did you get raped in the ass by a man in uniform?
3. this last one, well, its a piece. hippies are at the center of almost all liberation. but i guess fuck just carries on with whatever mindless job fuck has, day in a day out. i understand if you are just frusterated by your perceived lack of freedom, fuck.

perhaps the people on this sight can help you find your way.

thank gawd you stopped, you must have gotten bored.
ummichas () - 24 04 09 - 22:51

LOL, I love trolls.
Blak-Toothgrin - 25 04 09 - 09:19

wow my mail box exploded because of this fuck person.

i condone every word fuck stated, each and every line written by him is highly valuable to the progression of anarchism.

thank you fuck for being such a fuck.
Psycho Sean - 25 04 09 - 09:56

ty for wasting my time, fuck. As much as we all love your contributions to this post, i am glad that you stopped. Lol its to bad you got bored. And you know what after reading your post about me being a hippie, i realized you might be right. I think my hair might be a little to long, maybe ill get it cut
wushuq92 - 25 04 09 - 12:43

fuc k you fuck fucxk fuck

you bitches get jobs and stop shop lifting you fucking filthy hippies

capatalism is what allows you to be free if it didnt exsist you wouldnt have that shirt you are wearing now would you

you anarchists are fucking stupid

you are taking the freedom you have right from under your feet

dont mess with shit you idiots
fuck - 25 04 09 - 18:00

fucking anarchist in the ass

yeah you like capatalist dick dont you?
fuck - 25 04 09 - 18:02

fuck you all
fuck - 25 04 09 - 18:02

"Capitalism .. will be regarded as having been a greater evil than slavery by generations to come."

In rather more flowery language I say the same thing in my Blog entry titled ‘AT THE FINISHING LINE OF THE HUMAN RACE’

http://jesterspeaks.blogspot.com/2009_03..

When I say ‘it is time for Mankind to stop competing and start collaborating’ people say ‘but we need competition to motivate us to achieve more, to get more done’.

I say ‘Mankind – what have you achieved? What have you done?’.

You have produced more and more things-that- you–do-not-need at the expense of the planet that makes your existence possible.

You have locked away more and more of your kind in offices and factories in order to produce more and more things-that- you–do-not-need. Why? You do this so that the very few can have a lot more things-that-they-do-not need than everybody else.

You have designed fantastic technologies so that you can communicate across the globe – but in the process many of you have forgotten how to talk to your neighbours; so alienated, fractured, fearful and wartorn are the societies that you have ‘achieved’ – this is what you have done.

You have designed wonderful technologies for your ‘viewing and listening pleasure’ in your own home – but art only reflects life, and for many TV, video games and virtual communications are a poor sop to replace the real thing. What is your wonderful body for? Where is the wonderful world it used to live in? You will spend more and more time in front of a screen.

You have designed fantastic technologies so that you can share information easily and efficiently – yet you still refuse to share so much information.

You have invented wonderful medicines – but all too often failed to distribute them to those most in need – and your obsession with longevity over quality of life means that perhaps even those who can afford the medicines have all too often suffered more for all your efforts.

You have concocted fantastic cuisines, but failed to feed the world when there is plenty for everyone.

You have produced many wonderful thinkers who cannot even agree if anything exists or not.

You might say to me ‘you are looking on the dark side, you yourself admit we have learnt so much, accrued so much knowledge’.

I say ‘Great! Then it has all been worthwhile – if you can learn to use your technologies for the common good then none of your suffering will have been in vain. Read the book of time – hear the stories, learn the lessons – this is what history has been for. It is not a technical manual, this is not the purpose of your suffering. It is a parable. It is not too late for this cautionary tale to have a happy ending’.

"Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. As men moved
eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there. They said to each
other, "Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick
instead of stone, and tar for mortar. Then they said, "Come, let us build
ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make
a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."

But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were
building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have
begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them.
Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each
other." So the LORD scattered them from there over all the earth, and they
stopped building the city.

That is why it was called Babel [confusion] – because there the LORD confused the language of the whole world. From there the
LORD scattered them over the face of the whole earth."

Genesis 11

“If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing will be impossible for them” – Take medicine as an example. Amongst the most significant of our scientific enquiries are conducted competitively behind closed doors by capitialis drug companies. Medicine should not be about money. Surely we can collectively find the resources to support these great endeavours? And surely our scientific researchers can motivate themselves to save lives, without an extra television, an extra car, another holiday? If not? Then we are not a race worth saving. And would the advances in medicine not be so much quicker if the world shared what it learnt, if the results of conjecture, experimentation and trials were shared worldwide, instantly, efficiently, across compatible technological standards?

This is just one of the many ways in which Capitalism is completely unethical, and will be regarded as having been a greater evil than slavery by generations to come.

The competition has a closing date, the human race has a finish line – and the only way we can win is to wake up and see that we have been chasing our own tail for a millenia, cutting off our own fingers to spite our hands, punching ourselves in the face – over and over and over again.

The competition has a closing date, the human race has a finish line.

We are ONE. If we fail to realise this? We have come last and all is lost.

We are ONE. When we realise this – then we have just WON!
the jesTer (URL) - 25 04 09 - 18:29

hey fuck i hate to break it to you but… many anarchist have very decent and respectable jobs. Currently I am working to earn a double masters and possibly double doctorate in computer sciences and mathematics. So please explain to me why you think we are all “hippies” that do not have jobs and “shop lift”.
wushuq92 - 25 04 09 - 19:31

you to are capatalist then?
fuck - 25 04 09 - 20:51

no, although I live in a capitalistic society, and in order to live and survive I need to have a job, having a job does not mean that you are a capitalist.
maybe you should think about what you are going to say before you open your mouth.
wushuq92 - 26 04 09 - 07:39

wushuq think about what you are saying to all these people

its seems like a a lot of shit to me

and you are still capatalist even if it is aingainst your will hahahahahaha
fuck - 26 04 09 - 11:10

No, Fuck, we’re not capitalist even if it’s against our wills.

We’re anarchists, we believe in egalitarian society, not a society that has classes and a central government.

Just because we have jobs in a capitalist society doesn’t make us capitalists.

Capitalists are those who work to gain money and wealth beyond their needs, we work to support ourselves and our families.

We object to the accumulation of wealth beyond our necessities.
psycho sean - 26 04 09 - 11:58

perhaps f, you should really evaluate the usefulness of your contribution b4 you make it known. if you have questions thats great.

anarchy allows society to stratify as it will, rather than enforcing class distinctions.

shop lifting, theft, law breaking in general, is not a result of anarchy. it is the failure of state capitalism and democracy in general. anarchy provides the only logical approach for everyone to live well.
ummichas () - 26 04 09 - 12:22

Capitalism is the leading cause to the crime that you pinned on us anarchists. Capitalism makes you believe you need vast amounts on money in order to survive; Anarchy is not like that.
I believe I only need the money I need to support myself and my family. The only way I would ever buy a mansion is if I had enough people to fill them. A 3-5 person family doesnt need 20+ bedrooms and bathrooms.
If I were to ever become rich I guarantee you that I would only keep the money I need, I would give the rest to charities. Please do not confuse anarchic and capitalistic views again, they are very different.
wushuq92 - 26 04 09 - 13:40

Creative thought can’t be bought
Art is the worlds greatist Anarchy and Propaganda alike

http://nikonikolai.deviantart.com/art/Wh..
Nikolai (URL) - 27 04 09 - 19:18

What is that? Comments containig only “fuck! fuck! fuck” are not deleted, but a messages taht reports about successful fight of an international Community of Anarchists in Germany gets deleted nearly at once?

And You want to tell anyone You would be Anarchists?

Winfried Sobottka, a speaker of German Anarchists in the real Community of United Anarchists!

http://www.freegermany.de
winfried sobottka () (URL) - 30 04 09 - 03:39

Second trial:

Because of greatful teamwork of anarchic hackers of many countries, next to Germans in first line hackers of the U.S.A., we have been able to publish informations and proofes about very evil crimes of German State very effectfully in Internet, giving very much pression to a well known politician – Roswitha Muller-Piepenkoetter, Minister of (Un-) Justice of the most powerful German State (Bundesland) NRW. We have been able top break walls of pressing down such informations by German State´s Protection and other enemies of true justice and reason, and it it foreseeable that we will be able to force political changings that way.

We want to thank all our international Sisters and Brothers from the deepest bottoms of our heart and we are very proud of fighting with them in true community – that means all, in first line we have to admit that we couldn´t be that successful without the help of our wonderful Siters and Brothers in the U.S.A. : There will be no Anarchy in this world without them, but we will change the world to anarchy if we all give our best to fight in true community accodrung to a good strategy!

By the name of United Anarchists in Germany:

Winfried Sobottka
Winfried Sobottka () (URL) - 30 04 09 - 04:16

The following articles have been and are an important part of the acutal fight in German Internet:

http://swordbeach.wordpress.com/2009/04/..

http://utahbeach.wordpress.com/2009/04/2..

Please have a look at the tags, too!
Winfried Sobottka () (URL) - 30 04 09 - 04:17

Basical informations about our aims in American/English:

http://www.freegermany.de/american-engli..

http://www.sexualaufklaerung.at/united-a..

And, perhaps the last entry is a consequence of missunderstandings only, then I will correct myself and beg Your pardon in public, daily words in American/English on:

http://anarchy.freegermany.de
Winfried Sobottka () (URL) - 30 04 09 - 04:17

is there something up with some stuff on this sight? i hope not.
wow. i’m impressed with how many people defended anarchy. fuck was actually useful to bring forth things that i was wondering about like the whole living in a capitialist society and not being a capitalist.
BOipuso - 30 04 09 - 19:24

fuck you all

you fucking vaginas
fuck - 02 05 09 - 14:26

yay my friend is back lol
wushuq92 - 02 05 09 - 15:25

i think he’s just really oppressed, i think he needs some more motivational talk!
ummichas () - 02 05 09 - 16:48

BAHAHAHAAA!
That was a good one along with alll his others!!!
Boipuso - 03 05 09 - 20:57

ok.
I can kinda see everyones point
fuck - 04 05 09 - 23:54

I consider myself completely to be an anarchist and I disagree entirely with the current method of government. But what I can’t seem to grasp is how all of you compare anarchy to communism in such great depth. You all make comments that suggest we ought to share resources be that food, money (if indeed there was a monetary system), or technologies but effectively you are preaching communism. Whilst I can see the principle behind “the greater good” there are some large flaws behind it.

The first being that for it to work, everyone has to conform to that way of living and in the same way that we feel opressed by democracy so too would others feel the same about anarchy or communism. To appreciate the concept of everyone doing their job to help the world succeed one needs to understand that happiness is in no way connected to materialism, many I feel could never accept this.

Secondly, communism is a tried and failed method of ruling. I know the idea is to preach anarchy but right now I can see no difference. In a communist state there is still a ruling body and anarchy is the priniciple of no government at all. I’m afraid there can be no sharing of resources, of money or knowledge without a body to organise it. Whilst at first this body would seem an indifferent party ultimately it would form a sort of dictatorship, thus we are left with less freedom than when we started.

The thought that appeals most to me is “total anarchy” or more accurately a subsistant existance. There is no society, there are no jobs, no classes. We abandon all that we as a human race have created, except maybe those things which can help us survive for longer such as medicines. All the cities are destroyed, all signs of post-1700s life are eradicated other than those technologies which have become more essentials in this day and age. Essentially a Hamish Community but on a gargantuan scale where we can live out our simple yet pleasureable lives without worry of social taboos or modern morality. Only those crucial ground rules, in other words the Ten Commandments, restrict freedom. Any rule-breakers as such are discarded from the community, a crude yet effective form of justice which requires no state control. The world, able to recover from the scars inflicted on it will recover and whilst our lives are not as enlightened as maybe they could have been, there will be far more time for us and for future generations to exist.

Of course that is all ideology, a dream which will never happen…
[Kradiant] - 05 05 09 - 13:37

kradiant i agree with you 100%. its sort of a primitive anarchy(though i dont see much difference between a primative animal and humans today). Our own knowledge hinders us, for what is knowledge but a limited perception on what life is. All of Civilization must be dismantled and what we think we know washed away for us to become what (to me) is truly anarchy. i hope what i said makes even a remote amount of sense to all who read as it does to me.
AuthorityisSlavery - 05 05 09 - 19:08

Yes whilst very extremist that does make sense. Glad you agree I wasn’t expecting positive feedback :p

The problems I can see with anarchy as a form of living are that if as an anarchist state a country was divided into many different small or moderately sized social groups all working together to help each other not every problem faced by each group can be solved as none of the groups will be prepared to deal with each obstacle that meets them. This means we would require the communities to work together, sharing knowledge and abilities between them.

Say for example there are no doctors in an anarchist social group and one member contracts a contagious, potentially lethal yet curable disease. This group requires services from another group which contains appropriate medicinal knowledge. Now if this group refuses to help we already have a problem. This group which determines whether or not to help the other has POWER over them, something which is anti-anarchy as power breeds greed and greed breeds government and control. It’s all very well saying as it does in the anarchist manifesto that each group forms based on collective ideas and goals which fair enough creates a bond of trust between them. The trust for anarchy to work however has to extend to other groups, trusting that they will help in times of need. This as I said is exploitable and inefficient.

The only way I can see anarchy working is by a complete and utter revolution both of government, the environment and human kind’s perception on the world. We must remove not only state power but all that is corrupt be that cities, automobiles, anything at all that has a damaging effect on ourselves and the world. Then, once that has happened, we are truely free. We can start again with history behind us to help keep mistakes being repeated. Only technologies which are benifitial to ourselves and the world we live in can remain. All else must be eradicated.
[Kradiant] - 06 05 09 - 13:14

Hey—a friend of mine has been working on the Global Communist site, which we hope will help bring together and strengthen the communist blogging community (along with the anarchist, anti-war, anti-fa, etc)—most of us are anarchist-communists—and were hoping you’d submit something to our first blogging carnival, the Red Carnival. We love your blog. :)

http://global-communist.com/redcarnival...
Yvette () (URL) - 07 05 09 - 12:40

Anarchism is not really like communism I’m afraid, there are some very crucial differences such as the lack of a government or system of law which negates actions just because they are illegal. Anarchism is about deciding based on shared morals how a community should behave and work together, state control is the ultimate enemy.
[Kradiant] - 07 05 09 - 13:21

What has become the American capitalist fat farm of manipulative companies and banks, is not the best label for capitalism. Capitalism is by definition, a system of economics where goods and services are produced by induviduals or groups of induviduals without the interference of a government. ‘Pure’ capitalism has been long forgotten as “Laissez-faire”, a french market term for “leave be”, meaning that the government is to stay completely out of the material exchanges in a society. In a way, these corperate giants and monopolies have gained the power to control whole markets and demolish small buisness. It is not the idea of free exchange itself that should be demolished, rather the government-like corperations that have gained power through manipulation and fraud deserve to be destroyed. In all definition, the pure capitalist idea of Laissez-faire should be an anarchist one.
Nikolai () - 07 05 09 - 18:32

Surely an anarchist economy does not rely on the concept of business? The larger corporations have squashed competition because they can, not necessarily because of state interference. “Trade” in it’s simplest terms is what the world requires, a better word I suppose is a sophisticated form of bartering. Money is an unnecessary evil, many if not most people accept this but they don’t understand they are enslaved unjustly by a monetary system. Instead of business selling their products or sevices for money to buy other products and services (notice the cycle, keeping the rich richer and capitalism in power) the people should trade items they have or produced for items they NEED for existance. In this way, wealth is more effectively balanced and materialism is abolished.
[Kradiant] - 08 05 09 - 16:19

large corps have attained monopoly status because they have successfully lobbied the state for that status – the result is a perverted mutualism. monopoly is something that is constructed at everyones expense for the sake of
capitalization and expoitation. none of this makes money evil. currencies came into existence as convenience. they are supposed to be representative of fair trade.
ummichas () - 09 05 09 - 11:55

Monetary ethics and the idea of free trade do not overlap in any form. What I mean to say is that, yes, modern american capitalism has grown into the tumor of corperate manipulation and lobbying, however, free trade is in no way evil and is an anti-government idea we must all accept. Would it help if I stopped using the phrase ‘capitalism’ and replaced it with ‘free trade’? By dictionary definiton they are the same. But through perversions of the american corperate giants and governmen, modern capitalism, or corperatism, is no longer free trade in any sense. As far as the previous arguments on money go; the use of money is as same as the ethical use of firearms: both can be abused to achieve evil purposes, but their underlying uses in their repspective fields are for convinience.
Nikolai () - 09 05 09 - 14:15

i’m not too worried about free trade, because it doesn’t exist. i think that fair trade economics are more useful. i believe that embracing fair trade is the first step in the right direction
towards freedom from capitalism. do we not need some measure of ‘value’ when trading goods? how do we evaluate the worth of one commodity over another without upholding a ‘supply and demand’ mentality?
in order to affirm free trade, ethics are imperative in order to model the ideal. unfortunately ‘trade’ inherently implies buying and selling (things you otherwise would not produce on your own – hence materialism???).
to me ‘free trade’ actually means ‘bulk quantity’ which affirms capitalism. what do you think?
ummichas () - 09 05 09 - 17:00

notice that the non stop spamming of ken and fuck (both me )

has brought the down fall of this site

now one has posted on the new blog muhahahahahahaha capatalism rules! anarchists eat shit you pendejos
fuck - 10 05 09 - 07:41

a warning says you are being watched muhahahahhaa
fuck - 10 05 09 - 07:42

aslong as this site exsists i will try my hardest to destroy it

prepare your selves for an assload of spam within a couple weeks

im setting up a prog for it MUHAHAHAHAHAHA
fuck - 10 05 09 - 12:57

good for you, or you could find something else to do…
ummichas () - 10 05 09 - 18:30

lol wooooooo… I hope you know that most servers have a spam filter, so that when there are so many post from one IP it starts to ignore them/block them
wushuq92 - 10 05 09 - 18:51

Lets make it a private forum then.
Blak-Toothgrin - 10 05 09 - 20:36

I don’t think you need a value when trading goods at all. If by definition of an anarchist state we work in smaller benifital communes in which wealth in shared for equal happiness then money and value is nonsensical. All items are shared within a community so that the greatest good that can be done with them is achieved. By having a value items are restriced to those who own the most expensive trading goods or the most cash. Anarchy, don’t forget, is the concept of equalising communities and destroying boundaries between the state and citizens but also between the citizens themselves.

If money and value are abolished the gap between the rich and the poor, the upper and lower classes too is abolished. That is a world I think we all want to live in.
[Kradiant] - 12 05 09 - 05:02

Also, fuck could you please find something else to do with your pathetic life? Is it really that important that you disrupt a group of likeminded people simply to fill the void of boredom in your existance?
[Kradiant] - 12 05 09 - 05:04

The funny thing about fuck is that the “program” he has been building has taken him around 3 weeks. He must really suck at programming. Most people could create a simple spam bot in like maybe an hour or two.
wushuq92 - 12 05 09 - 12:03

I agree though I do have a couple things to say.

1. Something thats of recent thought to me is I do not believe that unless someone is truley suicidal they will not lack the will to survive, part of that instinctive will is to be active. The same idea go’s with people today when they retire, often times they go without work and yet they cant stand not working, if being productive wasnt so deep in our souls by now I dont think we would even be alive, though there is little living in this present life.

2. I dont think its souly capitalism but rather, monetary trade as a whole. Of course its not hard for any kind of monetary trade to evolve into capitalism in some shape. The barder system will most likely be the only form of trade that will not lead to hierarchy, as the barder system works of off “ every action has an equall and opposite reaction “, perhaps not always opposite but you get the idea. One cannot grasp an action like one can grasp a coin.
A.C. Joker () - 12 05 09 - 15:28

when will we see a new post?
ammo - 12 05 09 - 16:13

i think that the problem is living in those ‘smaller communes’. people don’t realize that we currently live this way. i think that we currently have those communes on any particular street, within a neighbourhood, within a riding (county, burrough, etc.), within the metropolis, etc.
it seems counterproductive to want an ideal situation that doesn’t currently exist. if we can’t work our way out of the problems that we currently face, then i believe we don’t deserve the right to create that ideal
situation anywhere else. it will simply turn into the same shit show.

we live in communities and it seems we have lost our sense of community.

i believe that society will stratify itself (people certainly determine what is valuable for their own selves), and that a community of equality is a community of oppression – unless, of course, it is a free
association of like minded individuals, that are inherently motivated at different levels, where relationships are completely mutual, one person for every form of work, and of course no gov’t, etc.
simply, if value is lost, society won’t be much better off than it is right now. in this day and age the youth are actually completely out of touch with value,
and therefore take their lives, and environment for granted. of course it isn’t money that provides value, it is just a means for exchange.

i wish that people would stop being afraid of concepts like money. anarchy is the absense of gov’t and absolute freedom of the individual. communists, syndicalists, others, have made this free definition into
something complicated, something that it is not. the logical conclusion for some (regarding anarchy) is the descent into minimalism, primitivism, etc, but that isn’t really helpful either.

there has to be some kind of progressive alternative, that can exist for everyone’s best interest.
ummichas () - 12 05 09 - 19:20

Something like a society where we live in trees and off the land but the internet, a physical centre for exchange (like a city) and ipods still exist, ummichas? I’d like something like that. I don’t see why we need to become luddites in pursuit of freedom; technology aint’ what is bad it’s just in the wrong hands and what i mean by wrong hands is the hands of the few controlled and doled out as they see fit.
Anyways, why not? I’d love to run around in a loincloth fucking, feasting, and having fun co-existing with an information freeway and other humans tinkering at their shit.
gentlefurie - 13 05 09 - 00:45

LOL, sounds great. humans have nothing else better to do anyways.
ummichas () - 13 05 09 - 07:52

ummichas we may live in communities but like you say we don’t understand what it means anymore to live in a community. Please stop disregarding the principles of anarchy which are that our small-scale local communities decide based on shared beliefs and morals how we are to live and help each other in order to create a world we want to live in. This doesn’t mean everyone in a community is equal, there will be those who are nicer people and those who are naturally more talented and helpful who will be more popular in a commune, but ultimately equality doesn’t matter. At least not in the sense of popularity or skill when a community is working towards the same goals. We know from communism that equality in the form of wealth just doesn’t work because it creates a huge divide between the equally poor poor people and the equally rich aristocracy. Government is shit, money is shit and alienation is shit.

The ONLY thing that is important in life is to live it happily. Happiness is all that matters. I strongly believe we will never understand what happiness and positive individualism truely is without an anarchist system.
gentlefurie you basically hit the nail on the head, what the world needs is a system of anarchy that takes us back to our roots in terms of us living off nature and caring for our planet and each other thus giving a sense of minimalism but also at the same time we should preserve those things like medicine and benifitial technologies that can help us live longer and enjoy our lives more.
[Kradiant] - 13 05 09 - 12:12

It’s hard not to tie anarchy in with some form of higher idealism. I should know. I do it about every day.

But anarchy is lived, just like materialism is lived. It’s just a lot more people live one than the other and readily deify and pass it on.

I want more people to know about the true nature of anarchy, not the media-pushed crap.

Hi.
[The New Anarchist] () (URL) - 14 05 09 - 08:51

‘going back to our roots’ is wishful thinking, and an irresponsible stance. instead of worrying about minimalism etc, we need to provide the incentives to labor/innovate outside of a
monetary system.

what we really need to stop doing is talking about taking care of people that don’t want to work hard… equality is of NO concern when everyone operates in their communal best interest. happiness is a value
judgement. people currently do things to make themselves happy. look where that has gotten us.
ummichas () - 14 05 09 - 12:52

=—=-Just as a slight topic for discussion-=—=
A rising trend in small communities in America is the printing of local currency.
Completely aside from the American Dollar in value, yet widley accepted and traded with in these communities, these effective tokens of barter are backed only by the goods they are used for. Local buisnesses use them, yet DO NOT IN ANY WAY convert the value of the collected alternate cash to the american standard so they can go to a higher executive branch of each respective buisness; Benefits? No cash to the corperate swine on top, and an effective system of exchange between local induviduals. The value of the locally printed bills is considerably higher and better to shop with than the $. Besides these points the government is planning to shut down many of these community currencies do to tax-free loopholes in the process. Downsides? Tiny exchange rate fees that the local banks readily accept.
What are your thoughts??
Nikolai () - 14 05 09 - 16:44

ummichas could the incentives for hard labour be something as simple as pride and feeling of acomplishment? If everyone was willing to act and work for the community in return for others working for them I think monetary insentives could be removed.

This is going back to what I said about the needlessness of money and value on goods or services, if everyone shared what they had be it knowledge or objects and everyone worked as single entity for “the greater good” of the community nobody would need money as nothing would need to have a cost.

Also yeah the point I made about minimalism is ideological, not something that will ever happen because it’s too extreme but my personal perfect world.
[Kradiant] - 15 05 09 - 12:01

i would hope so. it seems that pride and feelings of accomplishment are the only things that can truly contribute to quality and commitment; two essential components in realizing the collective good (an incentive to labor). what i mean
to say is that ‘real’ quality and commitment (should) have no price. in this era of ‘no value’, quality comes at a price, and capital investments are indicative of commitment. money money money.

providing for, and being sustained by your local community is the only way to avoid the current free trade arrangement that offloads penny salaries and poor labor conditions so far from our backyards that it
enables our ignorance. care for your community should provide incentive to labor. this has nothing to do with corporations and corporate greed, or money. free trade allows the working class of ‘developed’ nations to profit off of the penny wages of ‘3rd world’ nations.

we need to worry less about the nanny state, and more about our own responsibility to care of immediate community.
ummichas () - 20 05 09 - 20:38

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fuck - 22 05 09 - 18:13

____ ____ |+++++|
|++++| ___ |++++| ____ |+++++|
|++++| |++ ______________________ |++++| |+++++|
|++++| |++/ /( ) |++++| |+++++| __
| | |+| |-oo- | ______ |++++| |+++++| |++|
——-(__)—| __/ (_)_ —————————————————
o ( oo /_______________________| (oo) | __
| /| | M O O – B U S T E R S|__/ /| | /oo| – Bleaurgh!
|-| \____ ——— )_ /| /
|_ _|_|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 0 _| * / *
| __________________________________/
| W| _/ /————————- _/ /
/ / ___/ ___/
/ /
^^^ ^^^ Who you gonna call…?
fuck - 22 05 09 - 18:16

Moo Busters!!
Blak-Toothgrin - 23 05 09 - 05:46

I find it interesting that someone with the persistence of fuck would bother with this site. Dosn’t a target like Youtube sound more appealing?

Anyway, to the serious matter at hand. For some people, inticement could come in the form of a genuine desire to perform a service needed. For example, I have a great intrest in computer programing, and would continue with it even if I didn’t get paid. An entertainer might have gotten their start by practicing their skill as a hoby, or a cop might have began due to a personal experiance. In cases like this, the current capitalist system has merely allowd these people a way to easily trade performance with a way to live, and is secondary to the actuall incentives.
C.C - 24 05 09 - 17:32

Yes, C.C, you’re right, the incentive would come from liking what you do. And if you stop liking it, you’ve the freedom to change as you want (which is one of the main points of anarchy: freedom). The problem is, many people see working as something boring, a daily chore everybody would skip if there was no need to make money. Probably these guys hate their jobs to think like this; volunteer work is a great example that, yes, the incentive for labor can come from ourselves. We humans are social beings, we need to help each other, thus we have the incentive deeply rooted in our instincts!
Niark () - 26 05 09 - 15:47

I think that even those who loathe their jobs would be willing to continue doing them if other people were doing their jobs to help them. What I mean is that if everyone works at a job in order to help other people in their community, those who are unhappy with working at their occupations would still feel the need to do so in order to not let down the community. All jobs must be undertaken for the common good of fellow human beings.
[Kradiant] - 27 05 09 - 13:06

Tha’s so right. We are being taken advantage of and driven to work like a mule, while only they gain. We’re the ones with the power, the numbers, the wisdom. Rise Up!
Why do we let this happen? We are pre-conditioned to think we are inferrior; we are also poisoned from birth with food additives, wich make us less able to think clear and figure things out. EAT ORGANIC PLEASE! or grow your own. Then we can enlighten ourselves and teach even better. I’m also glad to see anarchists getting along beeter and agreeing more. We need to be organized and grouped like they are. We need also to become just as smart, strong, and agile as the elite, if not moreso!
We shall rise friends!
WHAT (URL) - 31 05 09 - 20:58

A.O.C.
Sorry for the brief loss of contact comrade. Lying low was essential to my particular situation..
I am in full agreement with you on this article. Our society does indeed groom you to be the perfect little consumer….But at the same time is it not still human nature to want more than one needs?
L.C.Stroke () - 17 06 09 - 19:17

“The more people do, the more society develops, the more problems arise. The increasing isolation of nature, the exhaustion of resources, the uneasiness and disintegration of the human spirit, all have been brought about by humanity’s trying to accomplish something. Originally there was no reason to progress, and nothing that had to be done. We have come to the point when there is no other way than to bring about a ‘movement’ not to bring anything about” The One Straw Revolution

The Daoist’s say ‘the greatest miracle is this: when hungry I eat, when tired I sleep’. Whatever could they mean?

Starting with ourselves, lets sort out all the deepest questions faciing
humanity, so that mankind can stop worrying about it and get on with
eating, sleeping, shagging and getting their hair-cut – I know its
been fun, but the slaughter, over-production, rape of the planet etc
is really starting to get on my tits. IF I had any tits, that is.
Maybe should get some tits? Think I might just do that, question is
whether I want a woman attached to them.. thought about getting them
on my forehead, but then they’d cover my eyes… unless I developed
some kind of cunning head bra.

This is the reason the necessity for different religions has always gone over my head: – If we accept that the Gods of other religions are the same as our God – then are we not of the same religion?
If we do not accept that we share the same God? Then either we are acknowledging the existence of other single supreme beings (a contradiction in terms) or we are denying the validity of everyone else’s mystical experiences.
At best, it seems, we can claim that our preferred sacred texts are better written, that our particular sets of words for describing The Divine are more likely to guide an individual towards a meaningful communion with God, or to make us happier, collectively and individually, by exhorting us to act in a more ethical and loving fashion.
Soldiers, lay down your arms, violence only begets violence. I know this is the very hardest thing to do when the blood of your loved ones is fresh, but there is no other way to heal yourself, Man, Mankind, there is no other way to heal the ancient harboured grudges, but to forgive the freshest wounds. This is The Holy War – the war that is fought upon hate in ourselves and is won by Love. This is the Whole War. There are no ‘Muslims’, no ‘Christians’, no ‘Jews’ – there are only Holy men, and those that aim for wholeness.

the jesTer x
The Jester () (URL) - 21 06 09 - 03:30

Those arguing that buisness in not need for anarchy world ask yourself: what is buisness? Buisness parallels with power over its clients, however, clients hold the demand power over buisness as well. What does buisness provide? It provides a service otherwise impossible without organization of induviduals. To be against organized production and creation is to be against human advancement. Without buisness you idealistic so called “anarcho-communist” would not have computors to blog about how you hate government yet want one to wipe your ass. Not all buisness lies on wall street:
Buisness makes computors
Buisness makes your music
Buisness makes phones
Buisness is an ugly word for human cooperation

Btw Obama is building an “internet security” department in the cabinet. Arm yourself: get an IP shroud, get a third party browser, don’t use google, and most of all keep writing.
Nikolai () - 26 07 09 - 00:41


  
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