We are free now. We are as free now as we will be with any form of government, whether it be democracy, fascism, communism, anarchy, monarchy, feudalism, bleh. I have total freedom to act, now. I can kill you, rape your daughter, steal your cows, move into your house. What I lack is not freedom, but degrees of power to respond to your retaliation and the retaliation of your allies (including the government). And this is a probably a good thing, because I am hungry and your cow looks good.
Anarchy is an ideal that can never be met. You want communes of people, all living according to their own beliefs / desires. You say you will shun those who don’t agree with your system, send them to find others who agree with them. Well, what do you think the world was composed of thousands of years ago? Exactly this!
Mr X is a peaceful man who lives in peaceful Valley X with people who agree with his Religion X (political systems are religions). Mr Y lives in Valley Y with his people who believe in his religion Y. Mr Y decides he likes Mr X’s daughter, so he tells his friends in Valley Y “come with me and we can enjoy the daughters in Valley X”. They decide “yeah, that’d be nice.” So they follow Mr Y and go into Valley X and take the daughters of Mr X and his Valley X people.
Mr X wants his daughter back. The people in Valley X meet together and discuss their options. They send Mr X around to every neighbouring Valley (except valley Y) to tell others of this threat.
With the assistance of the neighbouring communes Mr X leads a party into Valley Y to rescue his stolen daughter. They succeed, bringing their daughters back, but Mr Y and his Valley Y people are still a threat to the future, as are any other Valleys who decide they might want the daughters (insert resource here) of Mr Y’s valley.
As he did such a good job rescuing their daughters, Valley X put Mr X in a role to prevent the future capture of their daughters. He takes some of their men and trains them in methods to combat invaders. The neighbouring valleys, who assisted with the recapture of the Valley X daughters, also decide, in fear, that it might be wiser to stick together in case Valley Y targets them next. They send some of their sons to Mr X for training also.
Can you see what has happened? We now have a military.
So what happens now? Valley Y find other valleys who decide to join them and take the daughters of Mr X and his allies.
War.
Mr X, in good and honest purpose, leads the defence of his valley and has gained the trust of his allied valleys. They follow him. The threat is great, so he is allowed to plan their lands to best protect them. He now rules them.
Whether they appoint a council to rule, it makes no difference. Power corrupts. The future will end up as we have now or some other variant.
Perhaps you say they can appoint no leaders, but have every man vote to the suggestions of any other member. If one does not agree with a decision, they may depart. Perhaps this method may work. But Man being Man, a leader will appear who gathers the following of others. We humans are weak creatures. For the most part we lack the inner will to lead ourselves, and so readily put our decision making in the hands of others.
I tell you that, given time, a Leader WILL arise within a commune of total voting participation. Someone whose ideas seem wise, someone who has raised ideas that have saved them from disaster or given a boon to their society. The leader finds himself with power and either he or his successors will be corrupted by it.
I can guarantee there will always be a Valley N that admires what you have in your Valley X. Greed, lust, whatever, will rule the hearts of others and bring them to your door. You will take up arms, and you will protect those who offer the best advice for conduction the defence. How can you trust all such men to respect the power they are given? You cannot. I know that I would readily abuse such power.
The only way to have true anarchy is to live alone, in a world of loneliness, without other people. Any scenario with more than one individual will lead to power brokerage amongst those individuals. We are animal.
This may seem a little trite, but we don’t need anarchy. The world needs love. That is all. Love.
Please excuse any grammatical or spelling errors, this is unreviewed.
Chad () (URL) - 08 08 08 - 18:50

Chad, Anarchy is merely used as a tool by the people when it comes to reforming their government through a time of revolution, so you’re absolutely correct, Anarchy cannot be permanent state of government. As much as we type blogs about it, write books, lecture of it, or beat someone senseless to death about the Anarchist ideology, it will never work, for which I’m sad to say… believe me, this is coming from a man with a large Anarchy symbol on his shoulder. Unrealistic believers must realize we are only nothing but human beings, ones and zeros, as advanced as we are, it requires for order, it calls for a system, and it demands equality and opportunity, or there will be many unresolved conflicts, wars, cruel brutality, and death. I won’t allow for that to happen and Anarchy…

an·ar·chy Audio Help /ˈænərki/ Pronunciation Key – Show Spelled Pronunciation[an-er-kee] Pronunciation Key – Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a state of society without government or law.

will not happen in peace and unity. We must have laws. An economic system. We must have police officers… ACAB (all coppers are bastards), but we must have it.

However, there’s a saying that I believe in, "when the people talk, the government listens". When the hierarchy system is overturned as the masses rise above in recognition of value above the government, is what I’d like to call Anarchy. I believe in people becoming the government, not voted-for-office individuals, but all of us formed simultaneously as a government through the wonder of technology and the internet, where it calls for no special favors, no special citizens, no race, gender, nor disability differences, just equalized people voting on laws over the internet helped established by selected leaders who earn not anymore than a janitor. I believe in equalized economy, opportunities, free education and medical health-cares. Where everyone has a shot at college of their choice. No special universities. No private schools. All medical cares are covered for, including sex changes or amputation by choice. I believe in everybody’s right for housing and a car. I believe that the penal system can be voted by the people, gun laws voted by the people, or even drug laws voted by the people all via the internet. However, laws are called by the people to be reviewed yearly, as the economy changes everyday, so do laws as it adapts to society. There should be birth-given rights granted to everybody, religion, sexuality preferences, and the like, should never be of anyone’s business. As communist as that sounds, to me, is my personal definition of Anarchy and I personally believe in it. We are the government, maybe it isn’t Anarchy by definition but technically.. with people becoming complete governors of society, it becomes Anarchy with a possibility.
Iron - 11 08 08 - 01:23

Also, where in the hell did the article written about trolls becoming a sense of glorified anarchists go? Where did our voices go? Uh, oh, do I sense dictatorship amongst Anarchy.net?
Iron - 11 08 08 - 01:29

Iron,
Yes, I agree, we should not be oppressed by laws created by those whose goals actually conflict / compete with our own, as is currently the case. Every man should be entitled to every thing that life can offer.
What is your reference to the troll article? Are you inferring I am a troll?? haha, I hope not.
Chad () - 11 08 08 - 05:32

The reason I choose anarchy is because America is too corrupted to be reformed. Look at the American democracy as a human body. Say that cancer represents corruption. The body is too corrupted to be cured, so the best way to destroy the cancer is to destory the body. U.S. democracy depends on each seperate part of itself, so we can’t amputate a corrupted area with killing it. And if destroying the currents corruption provides a opportunity to start afresh, I say, so be it.
CORRUPTION IS THE ULTIMATE INJUSTICE!
[Kaleb] () - 11 08 08 - 16:45

Chad, haha, absolutely not! My statement was directed to the writer of this website who recently posted a rather perplexingly naive article positively correlating the similarity of belifs, values, and actions regarding an internet troll… yes, you read that correctly, an internet troll, to an cognitively-correct anarchist. Apparently the owner/writer of this site removed the article without any explaination nor reason told, most probably due to numerous complaints made by the readers.

Kaleb, although abit harsh, nicely spoken!
Iron - 12 08 08 - 03:40

Think realistically guys. There will always be power, groups like gangs would take the power and people will probably have less freedom than they do now. And whats so bad about an authority? the authority keeps you safe. Some people don’t like being small fish in a big pond, but you may find being a big fish means you have less space. Leadership means responsibility. A good leader is trying to protect you, not destroy you. And we already have freedom; if you don’t like what your leader is doing at the moment you have the freedom to change him.
Anarchy could not sustain, the economy would collapse, the country would not be unified, and so another country would just walk in and take it. Communism and Fashism may be bad ideas but at least they go somewhere.

Thank you
George () - 15 08 08 - 02:23

George, before making comments, it’d be nice if you took the time to read what we had mentioned prior your message.
Iron - 17 08 08 - 00:24

Sad, it looks as if Anarchy.net has lost it’s communal drive… morale for Anarchy in itself seems rather abandoned. Perhaps people want to be lead, dictated, and such. Maybe it makes life a lot easier, really. The trouble with Humans are that they’ve got to have a someone else keeping them in line or they’d have nothing to drive towards. Cows, for instance, would never stay in the same feild their entire life unless they had a farmer to build their fence. In the same way Humans probalay would not keep non conflicting attitudes towards eachother for long, and would need a leader to keep things in order and put an end, must I say, to the anarchy. I think we can all agree… We want a leader(s) who will not take advantage of us and give us a very large fence to live within. Limited authority is where it’s at.
Big Brother - 19 08 08 - 01:04

All men have fences, mostly we are blind to them. We take them for granted, we do not challenge their existence.
I know I am complacent. I am a simple man, and strive for simple pleasures. I shall one day be dead. I would rather enjoy what I have now than moan about what I supposedly lack.
I long for the ideals of Anarchy to be realized, but I feel that should I work my life to this goal, even success shall bring dissapointment. I do not trust the human race. My trust would be abused and betrayed by others who seek for personal gain (do we not all seek for personal gain in all we do?).
Instead I try to live the principles in my day-to-day life, as much as I am able. Perhaps when my ideals have matured and my thoughts deepened to some more concrete conclusion / realization, my attitude may change.
I raise a glass – to Anarchy, of the mutual aid variety.
Chad - 19 08 08 - 09:51

‘Be realistic – demand the impossible’ There are enough people accepting the status quo and insisting that this is as good as it gets. This website makes one very good point – as human beings we are all capable of so much, and need to stop accepting of ourselves so little. Don’t let the fact that the people around you aren’t striving for change stop you doing it yourself. It’s about the kind of person you want to be and the kind of world you want to live in, and the amount of energy you’re willing to put into that.

And capitalism just isn’t sustainable, anyway. And consumerism doesn’t make people happy. And individualism is alienating people from each other. Why not dare to be different, dare to dream of a better tomorrow, dare to strive to make it a reality? What have you got to lose?

I know that living in a society that affects everything I do and is in complete opposition to everything I believe in makes me very unhappy, but I don’t want to impose my beliefs on anyone else, so why not shift to smaller communities of shared ideals? And why not expect of people that they don’t start fighting over resources or idealogical differences?

You cannot derive an ought from an is.
Rainbow Dreamer () - 28 08 08 - 08:01

I would put forward that power is a distillation of inequity in relationships between groups/individuals. Like fine spirits, power can be wrenched from many iniquites, be they from military force, the possession of vital (and not-so vital) resources, et cetera. Let us suppose that there were no longer such iniquites; let us suppose that, rather than exploit such iniquities, each individual felt righteously obligated to resolve them;

Let us suppose that anarchy in fact rules the day- what would that look like?

Mr.X in Valley X would look over to Valley Y and see that Valley Y had resource Z. Mr.X has plenty of resource W, but no resource Z. Deciding to address this, Mr.X travels to Valley Y to inquire about resource Z, and finds that while Valley Y has plenty of resource Z, it has no resource W. An equal and mutually beneficial trade relationship is established. The benefits are properly distributed by the communes, collectives, or whatever organizational bodies exist in those regions, in accord with the old axiom coined in the Anarchist Revolution of Spain back in ’36, which is to say "Each according to need…".

Let us expound further.

The people in Valley A look over at Valley Y, and see that it has abundant Z and W. Valley A has neither, and is far away from their sources. Additionally, Valley A has no resources of any kind. She has enough food to feed her people, enough labor to maintain that food and their infrastructure, and little else.
Here’s where it gets interesting
Keeping in with the universal quality of humanitarian education which has been provided by the academic and scientific collectives, Valley X and Valley Y see the plight of the people of Valley A; realizing that the quality of human life is interconnected regardless of distance, they contribute what resources they can to alleviate the iniquity of their fellow man. So to do the Valleys B, C, D, E, F, G, and so on. It’s called solidarity baby, and it works. Valley A prospers, and is better able to contribute to the wider community of Valleys, helping them to better prosper.

That is to say, it would work, were it not for the presence of doctrinal systems and systems of power within virtually every society which have vested interests in maintaining disequalibrious relationships between regions and groups of people; this is done largely to maintain the ability of The Few to expropriate from the people the rights and wealth that belong to those who labor to produce them. The maintenance of the status quo allows The Few to continue the sequestration of resources and vis a vis their power to do so.
And since The Few control the schools, the churches, the papers, and the media, it is extremely difficult to inform the people of their present state of exploitation.
In our world without Anarchy, The Few would sell guns to the people of Valley A on credit, and after the region had been devastated by conflict, The Few would usuriously exploit the debt and carnage for great profit, which they would sequester away from the people from which they had been stolen.

Also, Rainbow Dreamer, I would suggest that it is not individualism that works so separate people from one another, rather it is the fear-mongering and xenophobia which has been a hall-mark of media (at least from what I’ve experienced in North America) for the last fifty years or more. I am reminded of an earlier time in the hstory of North America, wherein Spanish overlords would put bars on their windows and gates on their communities, to protect them from their exploited subjects, whom had been deemed inferior. Though the Spainiards thought the oppressed locals to be sub-human, they lived in constant fear of an uprising of the slaves. Contrastingly, at the same time, English neighbors in crowded colonies minded not the proximity of their fellows, fearing them not as they knew them to be equal (if not under the eyes of god at least under the eyes of the community).
I’ve noticed in the last twenty or so years an increase in barred windows, and I’ve heard more people live in gated communities than ever before.
The government, the media- they’ve got us scared and alone, watching our TV’s (a national average of 4 hours daily) from the purported saftey of our homes. But when you lived behind a fence, behind a locked door with bars on your window, are you secure, or are you incarcerated?
I would say that Individualism, as described by Max Stirner, which is to say among other ideas the rejection of doctrinal systems, would help to liberate people from the fear that the churches and govenrment have taught people to feel from early on in life. It helps people to challenge assumptions about the legitimacy of these doctrinal systems, and to ecourage people to think critically about their own personal roles in the larger society.
Hale () - 03 09 08 - 08:31

Here let’s make this as simple as possible for all of you who would rather argue about your personal beliefs than address what we all strive for, nevermind that you all seem to be pressing “your issues” on the the rest of us. Can some one say “fascism”, believe what Chad and Iron believe because they think themselves to be the only correct ones. The point is “believe nothing”, not Chad, nor Iron, and certainly not the government! Freedom for all without limitations is what we all want. If what you believe conflicts with your better judgement abandon it, do only what you, yourself know is right! FUCK AUTHORITY, QUESTION EVERYTHING!
Jason G. Genzler Sr. () - 04 09 08 - 14:30

What you are trying to say is care about no one else but yourself. The point of goverment is that it helps people help other people.
George - 05 09 08 - 09:41

your a scared little boy, must suck to be not in control of your life.
jdg () - 05 09 08 - 12:49

Why are people being so mean? Surely we all want life to be better for everyone, and being rude to people over the internet doesn’t seem like a very good start. The problem is that people look too much to outside authority to help each other, and don’t take enough responsibility themselves. It is true that we need to shrug off thought control: what I meant by individualism is self-interest and privacy above communal interest and community. I mean, think FOR yourself, sure, but don’t just think ABOUT yourself. People need to help each other to help themselves. If we can’t even get on and be constructive with each other here, how is there any hope for global co-operation, peace and harmony?
Rainbow Dreamer () - 05 09 08 - 14:09

Well said.
Thinking for yourself will lead to acting for yourself, which is _OK, as at least you will have conviction in what you’re doing and die having lived what you feel to be a fulfilled life.
Chad () - 05 09 08 - 19:47

I agree. I think that in order to co-operate we need to respect each other. We should not force views on people but at the same time we should be able to express our opinions and listen to other peoples opinions.
George - 06 09 08 - 02:45

I think it important to bear in mind that we human beings are social animals, and as such we benefit from the company of our fellows in many ways. While it certainly is very important that all individuals retain the uninhibited right of free expression, this is a rather elementary right. An individual that leads a fullfilled life, which is let’s say in this case a life of free productivity and free creativity, is of great benefit to the community in which that individual resides. He is happier, and those around him are happier. And while he individually benefits from the happy labors and creations of his fellows and they from his, the community at large is enriched by the endeavors of it members.
It’s called solidarity, and its currency is the free association of productive, self-aware individuals, working together for common goals and shared benefit.

If an individual feels that an association in which he is involved is no longer beneficial to him or its other members, then that individual is naturally free to leave and associate elsewhere. In so doing, he has assured the distribution of his talents as they are needed and appropriate, and has therefore enriched his community to the best, or at least the most appropriate extent, of his abilities.

Bear in mind always comrades that a right is not something that can be given to you, nor is it a priviledge that can be taken away. You are born with it, you die with it, and any man or organization or government that tells you otherwise, that claims the rights to deprive you of yours, is wrong and illegitimate. It is power that allows men to oppress eachother; it endows them with outlet and justification for their sadism, and allows them to purport the superiority of one man over another. It allows for the sequestration of itself, for the acumulation of wealth; it lends itself to the few who would rule the many, when the only legitimate rule is man over himself.
We the people can resist through solidarity!

We have to use solidarity, because ‘they’ own everything else. ‘They’ own the government, ‘They’ own the media, ‘They’ own the guns and the military;
But they don’t own us! They can’t! By virtue of our birth we are free, and ever shall we be!
Hale - 06 09 08 - 09:53

To be honest, even after reading all this I still maintain a firm belief in democracy.

And also, I was wondering…
How does an anarchistic state retain a healthy economy? I would imagine there to be many monopolies and price-hikes, if the economy were to even survive the outset, lending towards thievery and violence.

Would there be an anarchistic police-force or some semblance of control, or would all the psychotics and serial-murderers roam the streets freely?
GGGGGG - 06 09 08 - 22:31

there would actually be a decrease in violence if people accepted anarchy but if they did their is probably anarchist groups that would get rid of those who opposed anarchy
jon () - 12 09 08 - 15:21

At Climate Camp we had a tranquility group devoted to keeping people calm and co-operating. Its not about keeping people down, it’s about setting them free, but peaceful co-operation is an integral part of anarchy, surely?
Rainbow Dreamer () - 13 09 08 - 06:33

i disagree i dont think there should be any power at all. also i dont think there should be any kind of collective society even if it is "anarchist society". I think humans should live more individualistic lives and live more like the rest of the animals on Earth.
[C.o.r.y.] - 22 10 08 - 11:54

Control in the general population is less perpetrated by a gov’t. today , but more of those corporates, who only knows to make large sums of money with no regard to its workers and to the consumers, we can see past societies ruled absolutely by feudal lords ,kings , counts… but when relatively compared today , those societies allowed more freedom than that is today, WHY? because today , an anomaly exists , that is non existent to the past. That is to say ,that “the invention of technology” started it all, “technology that restricts freedom and all virtues that pull communities together “, resulting in the decimation of Communal societies and creating a rigid yet a covert form of social hierarchy ,We as anarchist should be focused with this kind of issue as well and not only about “ the control and power issue”. The technological and industrial society is pressing a some sort of a silent problem yet as serious to the problems concerning about the natural fear existing on both “ the fear of the Absolute Power and the dangers of living in a lawless society”.
Agent of A (URL) - 23 11 08 - 06:51

Some notes:

The technology I referred are the media , and all propaganda machines the gov’t. and the corporates use .It should all be destroyed in the whole process in our attempt to create a free society of abundance and equality . These technology is classified as an industrially dependent technology.
Agent of A () - 23 11 08 - 06:59

without technology, government control is nothing , there is simplicity of life, and at the same time a decentralized basis for communities are more likely to develop, allowing more autonomy and creativity. Globalization stifles creativity and initiative, creates psychological suffering in an unprecedented rate than ever before in human recorded history , resulting in the decimation of many cultures particularly the minorities, and most of all obscures us into making our own choice . Simplicity means freedom , I therefore advocate a society living comparable to that of the medieval period ,with a rather feudal setup. For those who are in fear of invasion by another “barbaric community” ,one can live in choice by complete isolation .That’s the way it is. But whatever you’re choice maybe, what I’ve commented emphasizes the importance of living free out of simplicity and isolation.

By the way ,for those who fear the aggressive drives of man living in a state of nature , What drives a group of people to follow a certain figure ?... to invade and exploit the weaker societies ?

To follow the orders of a figure ,simply because he is known to be a leader , a leader who orders men to do what he wants , where in fact everyone can be free from his control ,Who is he anyway ? I mean he is nothing. That’s where the principle of anarchy .Why should everyone follow that One.

There has to be a sort of human faculty … a motivation over human history , why such things happen “;It demands an answer . What I’ve asked needs a further research and study of these factors , this is a very important question for our movement because If we can find the answer and explanations ,we can be able to prevent aggression and barbarism for a society with an absence of a sovereignty.
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